definitive items of the utmost unimportance

I had the good fortune to wander into an in-world discussion about business in Second Life recently. It was a fantastic conversation that truly exemplifies the promise that the virtual world brings about — that of interactivity amongst individuals around the (non-virtual) world.

These were individuals from all corners of the globe, who I had not met before, that convened for a short time to discuss the serious implications of technology and business and since some may find this discussion useful or, hopefully, interesting, I’ve included the transcript of the conversation below.

My apologies up front, this was a long conversation to be read at your own risk. I find it fascinating, though I may be the only one. If, in fact, it does peak your interest, please feel free to comment.

Transcript after the jump…

Technorati Tags: second life, discussion, business,

[13:00] Nite Zelmanov: Morgaine, can you explain this
distinction between metaverse and businessverse?

[13:01] Emil Weissenberger: i guess business is a sub set of the possible
activities in a metaverse

[13:01] Emil Weissenberger: hi Ka

[13:01] Morgaine Dinova: Well the metaverse is the classic virtual
universe that stemmed from Snow Crash, Neuromancer, and other SciFi classics.
It’s basically distributed. Businessverse can be anything, we’re making it up
as we go along, lol

[13:01] Glosoli Streeter: hi Ka

[13:01] Ka Brevity: Hi folks

[13:01] Emil Weissenberger: please take a seat

[13:02] Glosoli Streeter: it seems to be a natural extension

[13:02] Emil Weissenberger: hm interesting definition, let me read it
again

[13:02] Morgaine Dinova: Since there is no definition of businessverse,
this is as good as it gets :PPP

[13:03] Emil Weissenberger: so, i would start now

[13:03] Emil Weissenberger: with some background on busines ideas with 3d
worlds in mind

[13:03] Morgaine Dinova: But, the change from seed of metaverse to
businessverse is very recent, just a couple of months ago.

[13:03] Emil Weissenberger: actually SL being the one not designed with
business in mind

[13:04] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, Emil. Ironic, huh?

[13:04] Emil Weissenberger: oppsoing the childs of Croquiet COnsortium
and SUN’s Wonderland

[13:04] Emil Weissenberger: have you seen demos of Project Wonderland?

[13:04] Morgaine Dinova: No. Linkie?

[13:04] Emil Weissenberger: they call it “Second Life for the Enterprise”

[13:04] Morgaine Dinova: Oh, you mean in SL?

[13:04] Emil Weissenberger: no, thats the point

[13:05] Morgaine Dinova: I’ve seen Croquet

[13:05] Emil Weissenberger: it was until month ago in the research labs
of sun microsystems

[13:05] Morgaine Dinova: Aha

[13:05] Emil Weissenberger: there is a good video demonstrating it

[13:05] Emil Weissenberger: i will look for a link and send it later

[13:05] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Ka!

[13:05] Ka Brevity: I’ve been giving demos of SL to executive and
collegues at my work.

[13:05] Emil Weissenberger: really, Ka?

[13:05] Emil Weissenberger: what was the feedback?

[13:06] Ka Brevity: It’s been good, although it does take time for people
to ‘get it’

[13:06] Ka Brevity: but when they get a live demo the lights start to
come on

[13:06] Emil Weissenberger: im asking, because im going to give a demo in
my ex-team

[13:06] Emil Weissenberger: in SIemens

[13:06] Ka Brevity: Ah…I’m with Bell Canada..so I know Siemens

[13:06] Emil Weissenberger: its quite interesting what they will
“get”

[13:06] Glosoli Streeter: did you all follow the Crayon launch?

[13:07] Morgaine Dinova: No, what is it?

[13:07] Emil Weissenberger: Crayon?

[13:07] Emil Weissenberger: hi Codeme

[13:07] Codeme Sands: Greetings:)

[13:07] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Codeme!

[13:07] Codeme Sands: Are you waiting for the presentation:)?

[13:07] Glosoli Streeter: they’re a group of marketers that have formed a
“new marketing” agency, they don’t work at the same location but gather
in SL

[13:07] Emil Weissenberger: Codeme, join us on the table

[13:07] Emil Weissenberger: it is open discussion

[13:08] Codeme Sands: thanks:)

[13:08] Glosoli Streeter: they have an island and invite clients to meet
them in-world rather than at a physical office

[13:08] Codeme Sands: would love ot

[13:08] Codeme Sands: *to

[13:08] Ka Brevity: I’ve heard that Cisco is a member of a consortium of
companies formed in SL

[13:08] Emil Weissenberger: interesting

[13:08] Ka Brevity: 30-40 companies, I’ve heard

[13:08] Emil Weissenberger: ive done a small demo to my boss

[13:08] Glosoli Streeter: they seem to have some interesting ideas but
i’m not sure if it’s all talk

[13:08] Emil Weissenberger: exactly on his subject , was a co-incedent

[13:08] Emil Weissenberger: PAConsulting built this Smart Home demo

[13:08] Emil Weissenberger: in SL to demonstrate the product scenarios

[13:08] Ka Brevity: I’m working on getting team members at work signed up
to try a team meeting

[13:09] Emil Weissenberger: and we happened to do exactly this, so it was
a good chance to show that SL can be used for something in business - like
product presentations and prototyping

[13:09] Morgaine Dinova: The BBC2 Money Programme about SL would have
probably had a large effect on the general attitude of business towards SL.

[13:09] Ka Brevity: There are two broad categories for
business….internal and external to customers

[13:10] Codeme Sands: and the recent Radio 4 broadcasts running this
week (UK)

[13:10] Ka Brevity: they both need SL to really improve on stability

[13:10] Ka Brevity: don’t know how many times I’ve crashed in a demo

[13:10] Morgaine Dinova: Interesting, although radio clearly has a
problem with getting the visuals across.

[13:10] Emil Weissenberger: actually, i got into SL because of SUN
Microsystems being “first” among big companies to hold discussion in
sl

[13:11] Morgaine Dinova: Yes, SL is far more unstable now than 2 years
ago. That is very worrying.

[13:11] Codeme Sands: its interesting to track peoples’ journies ‘into’
SL…

[13:11] Ka Brevity: The barrier to getting more business in is also
around the real number of users

[13:11] Codeme Sands: (spelling hell) excuse me:)

[13:11] Emil Weissenberger: hi Sky

[13:12] Ka Brevity: there is a lot of hype right now…but not really
translating to figures

[13:12] Sky Singh: hi found ya

[13:12] Emil Weissenberger: Ka, numbders here have so different meaning

[13:12] Ka Brevity: the concurrent users seems to be most meaningful and
it is increasing pretty slowly

[13:12] Morgaine Dinova: Ka: that depends entirely on the type of
business. Some businesses are failing because of SL’s non-scalability for
events, it’s quite dire.

[13:12] Emil Weissenberger: the other strange number is the
“traffic” number

[13:13] Ka Brevity: yes 50 on a SIM? that’s doesn’t cut it for large
business events

[13:13] Emil Weissenberger: if you ask the people in SL, most of them are
not aware that this actually isnt the number of avatars visitted the parcel

[13:13] Sky Singh: what is it truly?

[13:13] Emil Weissenberger: no, i mean the “traffic” metric,
when you look at the properties of the land parcel

[13:13] Morgaine Dinova: I’m active in live musician circles (not one
myself though), and it’s appalling. The sim limits put an impossible cap on
live music.

[13:13] Nite Zelmanov: Traffic is going away

[13:14] Nite Zelmanov: I missed the start of that thread, but I have
traffic ranking and it’s finally going away

[13:14] Ka Brevity: I have a casino next to my property which makes it
questionable if I can even have a team meeting on it

[13:14] Emil Weissenberger: it is function of number of avatars and spent
time on the parcel in relation to their total spent time thoughtout the day in
SL

[13:14] Emil Weissenberger: so basically, we, the 7 people here will
generate for about 1 hour 800 traffic

[13:14] Sky Singh: k, thx

[13:14] Nite Zelmanov: Emil: No it isn’t

[13:14] Emil Weissenberger: Nite, i read it on the FAQs

[13:14] Nite Zelmanov: It has nothing to do with proportions. It’s
1min/avatar

[13:14] Nite Zelmanov: The faq is totally outdated

[13:14] Nite Zelmanov: I’ve done some very conclusive tests

[13:15] Emil Weissenberger: at lindens are telling “complicated
algorithm”

[13:15] Emil Weissenberger: ah, ok, i believe tests, you got me

[13:15] Nite Zelmanov: That was how “dwell” was calculated back
when they paid for dwell. The traffic counter is just an AV*minutes reading

[13:15] Emil Weissenberger: but anyway, the idea was - it isnt the number
of avatars as many believe

[13:15] Morgaine Dinova: Well as I often mention, Philip Linden knows
about the non-scalability of SL for events, but he’s done nothing about it in 2
years. Perhaps businesses need to give him a wakeup call, when us techies don’t
seem to be able to get through.

[13:15] Ka Brevity: what traffic counter are you referring to?

[13:16] Emil Weissenberger: i think business was the reason for opening
SL for free of charge accounts

[13:16] Nite Zelmanov: Ka: When you click the name of the parcel at the
top of your screen it should a Traffic number in the dialg

[13:16] Emil Weissenberger: and business is the decision factor for most
of the things that happened in SL

[13:16] Emil Weissenberger: including voice (which i appreciate)

[13:17] Glosoli Streeter: have any of you beta tested the voice
abilities?

[13:17] Ka Brevity: ok, thanks

[13:17] Morgaine Dinova: It is now, yes. It’s officially a businessverse,
the old dream is gone. Which is fine, but it needs to scale.

[13:17] Emil Weissenberger: yes, i tested it

[13:17] Emil Weissenberger: look good

[13:17] Emil Weissenberger: hears well

[13:18] Glosoli Streeter: i have a hard time imagining it not causing
massive problems upon widescale use

[13:18] Emil Weissenberger: Morgain, I guess business was always in mind
in Philips head

[13:18] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, voice is one of the things that killed the
metaverse idea, since there is no voice transformation available. If you break
immersion with untransformed voice, you have no metaverse. Other reasons too.

[13:18] Emil Weissenberger: at least he dreamt about simulating the world
which in his case has a lot to do with money - he is investor in this thing -
he expects money

[13:19] Emil Weissenberger: money wiithout business is quite difficult

[13:19] Emil Weissenberger: hi Cooper

[13:19] Cooper Ronmark: Hey

[13:19] Morgaine Dinova: No, business wasn’t in Philip’s original vision,
except for evolving business from within. Not simply importing business from
First Life. After all, that’s why it was called Second Life.

[13:19] Ka Brevity: that sounds like a pretty limited vision if that’s
true….

[13:19] Emil Weissenberger: hmm maybe this was what he spoke, but what he
thought..

[13:20] Silvae Reuven: hello, may i join?

[13:20] Morgaine Dinova: Ka: it’s only a limited vision if you are wedded
to First Life. But of course, the metaverse vision isn’t wedded to it.

[13:20] Emil Weissenberger: of course, SIlvae

[13:20] Ka Brevity: I like more pragmatics in vision

[13:20] Morgaine Dinova: Ka; that’s not a vision then, lol.

[13:21] Morgaine Dinova: It’s reality

[13:21] Emil Weissenberger:

[13:21] Emil Weissenberger: does anyone know what IBM have in mind?

[13:21] Emil Weissenberger: with investing so much in SL?

[13:21] Emil Weissenberger: i cant imagine something else but business
from them

[13:21] Morgaine Dinova: Nope. But I assume it’s visibility and looking
cool. And SL is perfect for that.

[13:22] Codeme Sands: in the short-term perhaps;)

[13:22] Ka Brevity: there internal business application looks impressive

[13:22] Morgaine Dinova: And with a bit of luck they’re develop a proper
implementation of it, lol

[13:22] Mnemonica Carter: hi all

[13:22] Emil Weissenberger: ok.. i guess they are just experimenting with
a larger budget

[13:23] Emil Weissenberger: hi Mnemonica

[13:23] Morgaine Dinova: That’s good. In that case IBM will be giving
Philip a hard time for a non-scalable infrastructure.

[13:23] Ka Brevity: they do seem to be big in hosting others…like sears
and circuit city

[13:23] Emil Weissenberger: SUN did also good job - they are focusing so
far firmly on business cases

[13:23] Ka Brevity: I assume they will pursue that further as well

[13:23] Emil Weissenberger: they want application sharing and product
presentation platform

[13:23] Emil Weissenberger: and, their platform is totally open

[13:24] Emil Weissenberger: but, not yet proven to be scalable - still
internally used

[13:24] Morgaine Dinova: Emil: yes, it’s good for that. SL can be seen as
a shared 3D desktop.

[13:25] Emil Weissenberger: then, what was the case with Cisco giving
these money for visio? they obvously look for proof of concept for presentation
environment

[13:25] Ka Brevity: I was at a cisco event…they talked about using SL
for network simulations…that would be cool

[13:25] Emil Weissenberger: hmm

[13:26] Morgaine Dinova: Well it can’t be scalable, since SL isn’t
scalable. Sim limits have increased roughly x 2 over two years, when SL
population has increased by well over an order of magnitude. That’s some of the
worst scalability in computing.

[13:26] Emil Weissenberger: hm, i wonder if at all number of simultaneous
users per sim will increase ever

[13:27] Morgaine Dinova: Sure it will. We gave Philip the technical
solution 2+ years ago, lol

[13:27] Emil Weissenberger: do they do parallel computing at all?

[13:27] Emil Weissenberger: i mean, because as I know CPU resources are
not virtualized in SL grid

[13:27] Morgaine Dinova: Just look up “scalability” on the
forums. I’ve been active on that topic for a long time

[13:27] Emil Weissenberger: which means that if a sim is represented by
one single unit of processing..

[13:27] Morgaine Dinova: Emil: correct

[13:28] Emil Weissenberger: scalability is 0

[13:28] Morgaine Dinova: Correct

[13:28] Morgaine Dinova: It’s only “scaling” as the CPU
hardware advances. Which to all intents and purposes isn’t scaling

[13:29] Nite Zelmanov: The actual “grid services” (login
servers, inventory servers, etc) are actually in a quite scalable architecture

[13:29] Nite Zelmanov: Your major beef seems to be with single-sim
concurrency (40)

[13:29] Morgaine Dinova: To scale properly, CPU and other resources have
to follow resource demand. That means dynamically following the avatars.

[13:29] Ka Brevity: so…in terms of evolution…do people think this is
really the next web 2.0 - the new browser??

[13:29] Nite Zelmanov: It won’t replace a browser, just extend it.

[13:30] Nite Zelmanov: Hopefully we see the mozlib totally infect the SL
viewer so that it’s just firefox on steroids

[13:30] Emil Weissenberger: i agree with Nite

[13:30] Emil Weissenberger: i guess SL will be an extension of the
current web

[13:30] Emil Weissenberger: look at how you use it

[13:30] Morgaine Dinova: Any infrastructure in which when people leave
their sim to go to an event, their CPU stays locked 100% at home, is
non-scalable with population.

[13:30] Glosoli Streeter: the web 3pointD notion?

[13:30] Emil Weissenberger: it will be so for some time, web hast been so
popular so long time

[13:30] Emil Weissenberger: for 3d experience like SL it will take time

[13:30] Ka Brevity: assume that the tech problems can be solved…what
could it become in terms of users

[13:31] Morgaine Dinova: Ka: in terms of users, it will have a HUGE
impact when they finally (or a competitor) go dynamic for resourcing.

[13:31] Morgaine Dinova: The biggest impact is on land cost.

[13:32] Glosoli Streeter: are there enough users to justify being
accessible at the browser level?

[13:32] Emil Weissenberger: land will lose meaning once everyone can host
sim at home i guess

[13:32] Ka Brevity: any thoughts on how people will gravitate to it…or
accept it??

[13:32] Emil Weissenberger: thats the tough part

[13:32] Emil Weissenberger: im excitied to see how my collegues will
react to SL

[13:32] Morgaine Dinova: Inactive land costs the price of storage, in a
dynamic system. The price of storage is roughly zero. You will be able to have
10,000-acre estates for L$1. That’s a change.

[13:32] Emil Weissenberger: because it is still to accept that SL isnt a
game

[13:33] Morgaine Dinova: The only reason for the cost of land now is that
it’s statically resourced, and so tied to a single machine.

[13:33] Ka Brevity: will it have enough of a ‘human’ appeal to get people
in

[13:33] Glosoli Streeter: users will push the technology not vice-versa

[13:33] Ka Brevity: does it satisfy what anyone is looking for…in terms
of the average guy?

[13:33] Emil Weissenberger: Glosoli, i guess now users are doing it
already

[13:33] Sky Singh: the tech here is pushing me… lol

[13:33] Ka Brevity: I agree Glosoli

[13:33] Emil Weissenberger: some months ago the system couldnt hold 10
000 people

[13:34] Morgaine Dinova: LOL. Technology will push technology. Users are
the very last people to realize what’s happening

[13:34] Emil Weissenberger: users made LL to start thinking on new
architecture

[13:34] Sky Singh: ah, that explains it…

[13:34] Sky Singh:

[13:34] Ka Brevity: a lot of technologies die on the vine because it
doesn’t meet a need

[13:34] Emil Weissenberger: how do you imagine SL being used for business
applications?

[13:35] Glosoli Streeter: at some point it’s feasable that adaptation
will be available to a much larger percent of the population then will be
interested and that could backfire

[13:35] Ka Brevity: I like the immersive ‘connection’ you can make for
virtual meetings

[13:35] Ka Brevity: but people have to experience it to get it….

[13:35] Glosoli Streeter: i agree…that’s one of the strongest points
for me

[13:35] Emil Weissenberger: virtual meeings

[13:36] Emil Weissenberger: hi IB

[13:36] Morgaine Dinova: As far as we know, LL isn’t thinking about a new
architecture yet. They’re pretty open on a lot of things, and there’s no hint
yet that they’re looking at a dynamically resourced grid. I would bet that they
won’t .. until a competitor does, and then it’ll be too late.

[13:36] Glosoli Streeter: I definitely urge you all to check out what
crayon has done…it’s not ground breaking and they might not succeed but they
have some good ideas

[13:36] Nite Zelmanov: Crayon in SL?

[13:36] Ka Brevity: I’ll look them up…is there a landmark?

[13:36] Glosoli Streeter: they have an island and they’re an agency in rl

[13:36] Glosoli Streeter: yeah…lemme find it

[13:37] Ka Brevity: great

[13:37] Sky Singh: i’d like to see that too…

[13:37] Silvae Reuven: what’s so cool about crayon?

[13:37] Emil Weissenberger: i will check it later

[13:37] Ka Brevity: I read an article the other day, on a company
starting to offer hosting of virtual business meetings

[13:37] Morgaine Dinova: Immersion is dead. Voice killed it among other
things. Read Gwynneth Llewelyn’s essay on it, it’s very comprehensive and
insightful.

[13:37] Ka Brevity: that should lessen the barriers to entry

[13:37] Ka Brevity accepted your inventory offer.

[13:38] Ka Brevity: thanks Glosoli

[13:38] IB Wise: Why is immersion dead?

[13:38] Glosoli Streeter: no problem

[13:38] Sky Singh accepted your inventory offer.

[13:38] Morgaine Dinova: IB: do you sound like a furry?

[13:38] Sky Singh: thx

[13:38] Ka Brevity: I’ve heard that ‘avartar’ island is opening on June
14th….they will give you a skin based on a RL photo of yourself

[13:39] Emil Weissenberger: IB, for some cases voice breaks part of the
imagination.

[13:39] Glosoli Streeter: that’s interesting

[13:39] Morgaine Dinova: Ka: wow — even more immersion death

[13:39] Ka Brevity: I think looking like yourself will help in business
adoption

[13:39] Nite Zelmanov: I can’t recall the website URL for this
“avatar from your photos” site

[13:39] Nite Zelmanov: It was very impressive, though

[13:39] Ka Brevity: it will build trust in corporate world

[13:39] Emil Weissenberger: but actually.. Business and imaginations dont
have a lot in common lol

[13:39] Morgaine Dinova: Well, it’s fine, for a businessverse. Obviously
not useful for an immersive metaverse though.

[13:39] Ka Brevity: haha, yes Emil

[13:40] Sky Singh: ah, sorry must jet thx all, great chat

[13:40] IB Wise: Unfortunately, looking like yourself is important. Even
in SL you are judged by how you look

[13:40] Emil Weissenberger: that is what we with IB discussed

[13:40] Glosoli Streeter: okay — crayon is also at www.crayonville.com

[13:40] Emil Weissenberger: business occupies talanted people and stops
creativity

[13:40] Emil Weissenberger: in many ways

[13:41] Nite Zelmanov: Emil: Agreed

[13:41] Ka Brevity: it gets to the need to better understand human
interaction…..how it affects us on unconscious levels

[13:41] Nite Zelmanov: I love working for myself, but the demands of the
market stiffle my true abilities to crate new things

[13:41] Emil Weissenberger: it is a trade-off

[13:41] Morgaine Dinova: IB: indeed you are judged by how you look in SL,
and by how you act. But when you sound totally out of character with your look,
that destroys the judgement.

[13:41] Glosoli Streeter: that could be a holdup for SL too. if SL is
overrun by business is it possible for the creativity to move elsewhere?

[13:41] Emil Weissenberger: time and money

[13:41] Silvae Reuven: that’snot true - about business killing
creativity! [13:41] Emil Weissenberger: time is cruitial for imagination

[13:42] Ka Brevity: I think we can control the impact of buisness if we
choose……but let’s face it …we all get sucked in

[13:42] Morgaine Dinova: Voice will cause some residents to be cast
aside, for being of the “wrong” race or colour.

[13:42] Glosoli Streeter: or perhaps SL will help reinvigorate business
with a boost of creativity?

[13:42] Ka Brevity: that’s a good point

[13:42] Emil Weissenberger: Silvae, this is what i’ve seen for my not so
long life in corporation

[13:43] Emil Weissenberger: Einstein has a good saying

[13:43] Emil Weissenberger: Science is no more fun or effective, once
they start paying you for doing science

[13:43] Glosoli Streeter: imagine how fantastic it would be if SL helped
break people of stereotypes in RL…

[13:43] Emil Weissenberger: taken science = creativity, which i firmly
believe is

[13:44] Glosoli Streeter: if I can’t make prejudgements about you in SL,
will I be less likely to judge you in RL?

[13:44] Glosoli Streeter: that could make for a much more accepting
business environment

[13:44] Emil Weissenberger: Glosoli, it does

[13:44] Morgaine Dinova: Glosoli: well no possibility of that with voice.
Like I said, race and colour will raise their ugly head.

[13:44] Ka Brevity: but you will automatically make prejudgements in
SL…based on what you perceive…right or wrong…like RL

[13:45] Nite Zelmanov: I agree with Emil. It’s too simplistic to say
“business stiffles creativity” because clearly it also brings us new
products and services, new creative things. But Enstein was actually making an
economics point, I think. Equalibrium demand for creative new ideas in a market
is far FAR below the peak of possible creative output

[13:45] IB Wise: From the research I have read people tend to have the
same behaviors in metaverse as in real life.

[13:45] Ka Brevity: good point NIte

[13:45] Emil Weissenberger: Nite, well said

[13:45] Nite Zelmanov: that’s one thing that LL is actually trying to do.
Empower their employees for their creativity

[13:45] Silvae Reuven: Agreed, but: business environments add both
restrictions - call them paramenters - and opportunity. Money makes available
resources. The restrictions - eg time - make you come up with
“creative” solutions to get the job done…

[13:45] Glosoli Streeter: that’s unfortunate

[13:46] Emil Weissenberger: actually speaking of SL as business
environment.. how would yo go to a business meeting ? with suite or just like
that, the way we are dressed today

[13:46] IB Wise: Nite do not SixSigma and Lean by their very nature
demand focus on lower risk?

[13:47] Ka Brevity: I’ve actually made a second AV for business

[13:47] Emil Weissenberger: i often see people from companies with
official clothing

[13:47] Emil Weissenberger: so i guess they expect also officially (RL)
Dressed avatars

[13:47] Ka Brevity: that mirrors my RL look better…I find people at
work connect better

[13:47] Nite Zelmanov: Emil: The other day when I went tothe TUV launch
there was a “business formal” dress code. I went like this

[13:47] Morgaine Dinova: Well, more resources is one of the best things
that business could bring to SL. LOL, I was kind of hoping that IBM would buy
LL, and rewrite the infrastructure properly, hehe. Prolly won’t happen though.

[13:47] Nite Zelmanov: I got a warning, but little else. I’ll do the same
in RL if I’m in the mood, though

[13:47] Emil Weissenberger: NIte, me too when I went to speak with HR of
SoftLab

[13:48] Emil Weissenberger:

[13:48] Ka Brevity: I also don’t want my friends list for fun filled up
with work contacts..haha

[13:48] Nite Zelmanov: Ka: alts

[13:48] Glosoli Streeter: multiple avatars for multiple uses?

[13:48] Nite Zelmanov: I haven’t needed to break out too many SL alts
yet, but I do understand why some people of four or five

[13:49] Ka Brevity: yes

[13:49] Glosoli Streeter: i want an avatar that works like a
mullett….both business and party

[13:49] Morgaine Dinova: Emil: your comment about avatars reminded me of
when I saw a fully suited Mercedes Benz employee talking to a totally naked
female avatar on the M-B island. It was somewhat funny to watch.

[13:49] Emil Weissenberger: for IBM doing their thing quietly

[13:49] Nite Zelmanov: If IBM is working on their “own thing”
I’m pretty sure their purpose is for it to be an open metaverse to extend SL,
not to compete with it per se

[13:49] Emil Weissenberger: Morgaine lol

[13:49] Ka Brevity: I don’t want my VP chatting with me on Sunday
morning….ha

[13:49] Morgaine Dinova: And it wasn’t me, I’m more demure

[13:50] Ka Brevity: so …got to hide somehow

[13:51] IB Wise: Any comment on Sigsigma and Lean with regard to
creativity?

[13:51] Emil Weissenberger: i’ll be happy once i see big companies
starting doing something about interoperability

[13:51] Emil Weissenberger: because I dont want 5 usernames and passwords
for 5 avatars in 5 virtual worlds

[13:51] Morgaine Dinova: Nite: that would be good. The open source
community hasn’t really managed to come up with a usable metaverse
implementation. With IBM’s muscle, it could be different.

[13:51] Emil Weissenberger: business could also help in this direction

[13:51] Glosoli Streeter: we’re going to need a social network to connect
our avatars to one single identity

[13:52] Ka Brevity: I thought the IBM thing was going to interface into
SL

[13:52] Emil Weissenberger: Silvae, very interesting

[13:52] Morgaine Dinova: Glosoli: only if you don’t believe in immersion

[13:52] Emil Weissenberger: Glosoli, i was thinking in this direction too
once

[13:52] Emil Weissenberger: but then, again, you need a common interface
for identity management

[13:52] Glosoli Streeter: it’s depressing…i don’t want any more social
networks than already have

[13:52] Emil Weissenberger: and this is dependent on the world providers

[13:52] Glosoli Streeter: but can we rely on the world’s providers?

[13:53] Morgaine Dinova: Like Gwynneth said, there are basically two
kinds of people the immersionists, and the augmentists (who just think of SL as
the web in 3D).

[13:53] Ka Brevity: I’m starting to feel a bit psycho with all of these
identities

[13:53] Emil Weissenberger: do you think as a user you dont rely on
them?:)

[13:53] Glosoli Streeter: i absolutely do but open-source shows a working
example of not relying on them

[13:54] Emil Weissenberger: it is difficult, true.. how many IM systems

[13:54] Glosoli Streeter: immersionists and augmentists must co-exist in
a business environment though, and does one cater to both

[13:54] Nite Zelmanov: Sl wioll be without “world providers”
ASAP if it succeeds in Philip’s goals

[13:54] Morgaine Dinova: The immersionists want the exact opposite — to
allow a multiplicity of entirely separate identities, one per world, or even
multiple per world.

[13:55] Glosoli Streeter: but if i’m an immersionist working for an
augmentist in a virtual environment, wouldn’t i have to re-evaluate my
interaction?

[13:55] Emil Weissenberger: Morgain, which one do you think would suite a
larger userbase?

[13:55] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, SL shows no sign of becoming world #1 of a
multiverse. That idea seems to have been abandoned.

[13:56] Morgaine Dinova: Emil: well you can’t have a centralized web.
That doesn’t scale even in 2D, let alone in 3D

[13:57] Emil Weissenberger: Morgaine: i think depending on the model of
interaction, it can be

[13:57] Emil Weissenberger: take Croquet as example

[13:57] Morgaine Dinova: The web exploded as it did because it grew at
the leaves of the tree, unhindered by centralization.

[13:57] Nite Zelmanov: I think this immersionist/augmentist thing is
moot. You can have multiple AVs in one single huge metaverse, and one of them
can act as a business augmentist in a suit and all the other ones can be
immersed in whatever they like

[13:57] Ka Brevity: that’s my plan haha

[13:57] Morgaine Dinova: Nite: not if they’re linked

[13:58] Nite Zelmanov: Morgaine: SL is rapidly decentralizing. I don’t
think they’ve abandoned that goal at all

[13:58] Emil Weissenberger: I think they are still at that goal..

[13:58] Morgaine Dinova: Nite: no, the separate clusters are all part of
the same centralized system.

[13:58] Nite Zelmanov: Morgained: Linked as in each backed by credit
information tied to a single human?

[13:59] Nite Zelmanov: Morgaine: I know that, but there is code work
being done to give each sim and client it’s own notion of an inventory storage,
for example

[13:59] Morgaine Dinova: Credit? LOL, that’s a bit First
World, isn’t it?

[13:59] Nite Zelmanov: Morgaine: Quite first world. But that uis what you
mean by “linked” right?

[14:00] Morgaine Dinova: I meant something less strong, ie. merely
identity linking. But you’re right, it could be as appalling as linkage through
your credit card.

[14:00] Ka Brevity: prefer that then passport…..

[14:00] Nite Zelmanov: Morgaine: What other form of “identity
linking” do you mean, then?

[14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Any kind of link that derives from a First World resource — that inherently breaks any
possibility of immersion.

[14:01] Emil Weissenberger: business will want credit cards

[14:01] Nite Zelmanov: I think that the multiverse for business will
really explode when SL goes “platform” or someone else does it for
them. There are already game companies doing viewer development for tighter
integratoin into their game with a view to hosting their game servers in the
metaverse

[14:02] Emil Weissenberger: well in germany they already do it - when you
go checking in for the plane , one of the ways to identification is credit card

[14:02] Nite Zelmanov: You walk onto the Steam sim, your viewer downloads
the plugin, and wham, you’re playing Steam games

[14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Emil: indeed, which is why I say that the FL
businessverse is good enough for business. But it’s no longer an immersionist’s
SL.

[14:02] Nite Zelmanov: Morgaine: It’s a moot distinction I think. You can
have both on the same grid

[14:03] Glosoli Streeter: interesting that we continue to look at RL
businesses in SL rather than business that has developed specifically in SL and
only in SL

[14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Nite: so Avalion’s elfin population has VISA
cards, right?

[14:03] Nite Zelmanov: If SL was “good enough for business” I
wouldn’t be getting these strange looks from my accountant when I try to
explain the mechanics of how I’m obtaining and withdrawing the $L into my
corporate account